City of steamall steam official game avatars DEEP ROCK GALACTIC - SUPPORTER II UPGRADE game hello everyone and welcome back to the new most controversial video that ill ever probably make at least until i talk about gold again so today were going to be talking about modding ill go over some general purpose stuff but the main focus of this video is going to be the issues that i see with the current approval verification and sandbox categories that we have for mods this video is going to be long its going to be messy and im going to cover a lot of ground but a couple of things i want to get out into the open before anything else just to be absolutely clear just because you use approved mods doesnt mean youre cheating or using them to cheat or even trying to in any capacity just because someone makes an approved mod that could potentially give an advantage to a player doesnt mean theyre designing that mod to be a cheat bottom line is i really dont take any issues with mod makers except on some rare occasions which well talk about and mod users at all my issue is with the approval system and how its currently implemented and before we even get into anything i would like to apologize to the modding community at large that ive never really been clear in my statements whenever i said that theres a lot of mods that were able to be used for cheating i should have taken the time to break it down sooner be more clear about my points and really articulate things instead of throwing the blanket labeled cheating at so many talented and passionate individuals so now that we got that out of the way lets talk about the approval categories that we currently have for mods in deep rock galactic we have verified which is largely quality of life and audio video mods that do not affect clients in the game basically you can join someone elses game while using these mods and they wont even be able to tell because it doesnt affect gameplay and it doesnt have to send any information to the hosts computer then we have approved in sandbox im going to read these definitions verbatim as the wording is very important approved for progression mods are challenging or alternate game modes changes to weapon stats and mods that moderately alter gameplay elements while still retaining progression in line with a regular game and sandbox mods are any mod that changes rewards or mission payout and mods that directly unlock in-game items notice some key words in the approved definition altering or challenging game modes changes to weapon stats and mods that moderately alter gameplay elements while still retaining progression and sandbox specifically states any mod that changes rewards so with that out of the way lets go ahead and hop over to mod io and look at a few standout mods once again any mod that i display in this video unless explicitly stated is not something that im going to accuse anyone of making or using for the purpose of cheating i just want to outline the possibility of them being used that way and the way that the approval system fails in its current iteration one specific thing i need to clear up before we actually get into the first couple of mods is that the hazard 6 and starship trooper elite mods that i display in this video dont actually operate anymore they are not updated to the current version of the game however this isnt because they were removed or addressed in the way that i would have liked them to be which is acknowledging that they shouldnt be approved and should be in sandbox due to the increased payout reward its it happened because they were not updated to the current iteration of the game and had they been they would likely still be in popular demand and use right now so i dont actually say that while were going through the mods individually but i just wanted to make it clear that these two that i display dont actually work anymore first we have starship troopers elite this is a difficulty mod that makes a lot more bugs spawn having played with it a few times myself i can definitely say that its a lot of a lot of leg work to keep up with all these bugs and you also need to have a higher enemy cap to even be able to fit them all in the game now im not going to disagree and say that this mod does not make the game harder and theoretically if youre playing a harder version of each mission you should be given a higher reward correct well thats one of the things that this mod does is it increases the amount of xp you get from what would be hazard 5 at 133 to 150 in this mod and while having played this mod myself i can say that the amount of work that youre putting in definitely equates to that thats not a decision that we as players and mod makers get to make and is explicitly outlined in the sandbox mod criteria that if it modifies payout in any way it should be a sandbox mod but at this moment in time this is an approved mod so at that at this point weve already thrown the criteria for sandbox versus approved mods out the window and this is one of the more rationally balanced and reasonable mods that ive seen next we have hazard 6. this is a staple mod its more or less the same as starship troopers elite in that it makes hazard v replaced with a harder difficulty so im not going to go through all the exact details as theres some slight differences in what makes it harder versus starship troopers but once again we see that theyre the leading factor that i take issue with is it alters the reward for these missions from 133 to 166 and this is where even if we ignore the fact that this automatically defines this mod as a sandbox mod it also begs the question why this mod is deemed 166 whereas starship troopers elite is deemed 150 who gets to make that decision other than the mod maker and who finds it justifiable and the issue isnt inherently that its 150 or 166 percent its that tomorrow someone could come along and make a hazard 7 mod and set the value to 200 and at that point whos to tell them theyre wrong to do so because weve already justified that slightly harder than hazard 5 is worth either 150 or 166 so if we go another rung up the ladder why shouldnt the reward continue to increase and even if the difficulty does proportionately increase to match the increased reward were still in contrast to that initial criteria which deems a sandbox mod and as we can see hazard 6 is also approved once again i dont think hazard 6 is used to cheat but the potential is there and the fact that the base rules that are set out and outlined are instantly violated by the reward multiplier mechanic it just doesnt sit right with me and it opens the door for a lot of the other things that were going to talk about later on next we have swarm control or swarm size control as it used to be called basically this one allows you to manually adjust how many of each type of enemy are spawning their statistics speed projectile speed health it gives you a very great deal of control over the enemies that youre fighting and this is compatible with all the higher difficulties so you can increase the amount of enemies youre fighting on hazard 6 or increase the amount of enemies youre fighting on hazard 5 but the problem with this mod is that it also allows you to reduce the amount of enemies that youre fighting very heavily down to five percent of the normal values on its own this is fine ive used this mod to capture ambient footage for the intros to my videos whenever im in a cave i use this mod to reduce the amount of enemies that are there so i can get clean footage however i shouldnt be able to finish those missions and get rewarded for them when theres no enemies present thats not something i should be able to do because that is by most peoples definition altering gameplay elements and making progression much much easier maybe im misinterpreting the definition of an approved mod but when i hear the words retaining progression i think that you actually have to play through the normal flow of every mission and you have to engage with the normal gameplay elements and removing enemies from the game down to five percent of their normal values is a very significant change in progression and more than a moderate altering to gameplay elements and i dont think that most people a 99 of people using this mod are probably increasing the values theyre using it to make the game harder like the intention is but once again we have to figure out where this falls into that definition this ones not as cut and dry as the previous two mods that blatantly fall into the category of sandbox but i mean when we were talking about removing 95 percent of the enemies from every mission that you play forever and you can use it on those higher difficulties and get a higher payout thats seems a little off and really the crux of a lot of these mods is the things that you can combine them with and that that is a large issue as well that i cant think of a great way to address is just the fact that you can have these mods that make the game easier that are designed for use on the higher difficulties but they dont require you to play the higher difficulties you can just use them in hazard 3 if you want to and once again i dont think most people are using this mod to cheat i think theyre using it to make the game significantly harder ive been victim of playing with other people ive been a victim of this mod many many times so i can definitely attest to the fact that it does what its designed to do but the fact that it has the ability it has sandbox features in it is is a bit off to me and next we have one of those mods that i was talking about thats intended for use on higher difficulties 40 nitro resupply pods does what it says on the box instead of 80 nitro you need 40 nitra on higher difficulties like starship troopers or using swarm size control to fight three times as many bugs these are damn near required you can realistically do those missions without it but youre not gonna have a good time obviously this mod is heavily being used for modded difficulties but as you can see theres no requirement to use it on modded difficulties theres nothing stopping me right now from grabbing this mod and just using it for as long as i see fit and once im at the point where ive won as many much easier missions as i want i can simply uninstall the mod and go back to playing like a vanilla player so like i said this really isnt egregious on its own because of the intention and i know the people that made this mod didnt intend for it to just be like oh make base game easier but i can guarantee you theres at least a few people using it that way now were starting to get into some of the more egregious mods this is very slight bosco improvements they people are very fond of naming the mods very slight or small in reality its significant buffs so i mean you could pause and look at this if you want its literally just a buff to every stat gives you twice as many revives like this was one of the lower end ones that i just wanted to feature to get an idea of what these look like but i mean realistically how much further can you go before its just doubling all the stats and its just free a free mod that makes the game easier dont really have much to say about this other than its one of the less egregious approved mods ive seen now heres one ive really wanted to talk about for a while this is brighter objects and im gonna actually harp on this one a lot harder because i use this myself i want to make that incredibly clear i use this mod basically every time that i play now im not not part of the problem that im talking about with people using mods to make the game easier for themselves and whether or not thats justified and falls into approval categories but this is a really hard one to quantify because it is a visual change its an audio visual change that only affects the people who have it installed however it does make the game easier because the tagline of deep rock galactic being danger darkness dwarves when damn near everything that you need in the mission glows that darkness component matters a lot less i have no issue finding things even without this mod personally just because i know how the caves work and im sure theres this same kind of line of logic for other mods that are approved or potentially give you an advantage as well but that doesnt mean its not wrong for me to use it it is an advantage that im obtaining from a mod on my normal save file and more potentially even more egregious than the other mods weve talked about this is verified this does not require anyone else to see that you have it you can use it for as long as you want and never have to go on modded status so realistically this is the first crack in the verified system we we now have an advantage that is a verified mod theoretically everyone should have this because why wouldnt you well if you value playing the game legitimately and not making it easier for yourself with mods you shouldnt have it so like i said im not immune to the field that im criticizing here it is very plainly applicable to me as well i just thats why im saying i dont have a huge issue with the people who use these mods its about the approval system and allowing this to even be verified in the first place id be lying if i didnt say that half the reason i even use this mod is in hopes to someday get some attention from the developers and say hey this guy is consistently using this thing that makes the game easier why why would he be doing that if its a verified mod so just some food for thought on that and also i wanted to show that im not i well i guess i am a hypocrite and i want to acknowledge that i am and then we have the second brighter object mod which this ones very interesting because this passes on the brighter object the brighter object power to gold dice room and nitra this ones approved and the logic that was provided to the mod maker on this from the developers was that these dont normally have lighting to them and i think thats a real cop-out excuse whenever youre putting it in the category with doubling the stats of all of your equipment and things like that it really im not saying it should be verified i think normal brighter objects should be approved with this one but the fact that they have normal brighter objects in verified and this one approved is a really weird line in the sand to draw considering more or less they do the same thing but as were gonna see later on approved mods that should be in sandbox are also on the wrong side of that line so now well get over to the really weird stuff more rare enemy encounters so theyre what used to be a version of this it increased it to a hundred percent that was in approved for a while before it finally got kicked back to sandbox but basically this is exactly what it says on the tin you get a core lock at a much higher rate and you get a betsy at a much higher rate four times as often for both of them i dont know about you but i consider betsy more of an asset than a threat considering how quickly you can shut her down with most classes and core locks have value yes they do take effort to kill but they have value so in my and many other peoples opinion a core lock is a good thing its value it gives you more experience and credits so would that not count as changing the rewards or mission payout because you had greater chances to get an event that made the mission pay out more the betsy one is less impactful because its only applicable to that one mission but still at that it gives you another asset to make the mission easier for yourself if it was just betsy it would be a different it would be a little less egregious but having the payout and the betsy here as well that and this mod used to include crassus detonators but it would have been sandbox the original mod maker was threatened with it being put in sandbox if he didnt remove the crassus which once again is what im talking about which is this weird line in the sand thats being drawn why is a core lock different than a crassus is it because the core lock doesnt give you gold directly it gives you gold in the end screen id rather have a core lock than a crassus detonator because its much easier to deal with it has about the same amount of health if you combine all the sprouts versus straight up killing a crassus and you dont have to mine all the gold you just put the chunks in so if anything they should have left the crassus and taken the core lock out so you see what im saying is a weird line in the sand to draw that the crassus detonator is this holy grail that cant be included in approved mods but even then it is well get to that in a minute whereas core locks are somehow different all right now were getting to the real egregious im only going to show off two of these because theres an absolute ton of them and wed be here all day trying to parse apart all the different random stat increases and blanket buffs to everything but like i said the verbiage of the ad the adjective of slightly is is very poorly used in this scenario because basically every piece of equipment that you can use everything that works in your favor is is buffed in one way or another maybe i need to reread this list but there is no nerfs here i if there is any a single nerf it to any of this i dont see it more damage more ammo or more clip size more damage more ammo more ammo like i mean what where do we draw the line here so like really like this once again the implication here is its intended to be used with in conjunction with mods that make the game harder but its not required you dont have to play the higher difficulty mods and at that this is where were starting to get to the territory where i want to ask this individual why are you playing a higher difficulty if you need to make all of your equipment better to play it why not just play either a lower modded difficulty or vanilla game with normal upgrades and its not like this is a rare thing this is used by a very this is very frequently subscribed and very popular as you can see so i can guarantee at least a few individuals are not using this for modded difficulties and also theres plenty of people playing modded difficulties without this and the last one well go over has one of my favorite changes of all time at least this ones a little bit more publicly disliked just because its absolutely absurd that to the degree at which it changes things but well look at it anyways its basically the same as the last one we looked at its just way more shameless in that increases the power of the flashlight flares gives you i think nearly twice as much health no only 185 health uh it allows your health to regenerate all the way up to 100 um reduces fall damage removes friendly fire makes everything dig more quickly and then this is the real kicker that i love the walking speed is increased to higher than the base game run speed so you can literally just press w and move faster than a vanilla player can while sprinting and if we want to talk about sprinting holy hell like like this person doesnt even try to justify it as like this is for this is for modded difficulties no its a minor amount of tweaks to make life easier i mean at what point do we call it what it is which is just cheating Music next we have game tools this is a really good mod bay by one of the og and one of the best mod makers so once again im really not trying to direct any hate or flack at him because what this mod is intended for is supporting things like twitch spawns and allowing us to test things in the sandbox environment but were able to spawn crassus detonators with this mod like we talked about with the more rare events mod that got was threatened with sandboxing because it was able to increase the chances of a crassus detonator 25 this mod will allow you to spawn an infinite amount at a whim as many as you want as well as things like loot bugs so you have an indefinite amount of nitro you can just sit in a cave and farm crassus detonators all day do i think thats what this mod was designed for of course not of course it wasnt this is a tool like it says game tools made for the community and i use this frequently for testing things and testing builds and finding out little gameplay mechanical stuff whenever someone asks me can i temp shock betsy i dont know the answer to that off the cuff i load up this mod and i test it out and if i didnt have this mod id be very frustrated but thats the thing im getting at here is this mod shouldnt be approved because it gives you an advantage it significantly changes the gameplay loop was it designed to be used every mission and used to spawn loot bugs when youre low on nitrogen no of course not but it has the capability to do that so it really doesnt fall into approved because it moderately alters the gameplay elements and it also technically falls into sandbox because you can significantly modify the payout of your missions by spawning crassus detonators and then spawning bulk detonators to blow up the gold like is that harder than just installing cheat engine absolutely but for some people its going to be what they do and i think its very telling that in the comments of this mod you see an individual looking for a way to spawn a hooli hoarder which i think we can all understand the reasoning behind why they would want that as the only thing that you arent able to get spawned from this menu is hooli hoarders and this individual clearly needs some minerals to make some upgrades so they come to an approved mod to find them which this this gives me at least some confirmation that theres at least a few of these people out there and even if there is only a few of them and even if theres none of them it still goes back to what we said in the beginning which is this just isnt in the right approval category based on what the approval categories are outlined as i know that was a lot of information coming at you for a prolonged period of time so lets simplify things for a little bit and hop into the game and look at just how broken some of these mods can be in practice so were gonna start with two just to show what you can do with just a couple of mods that unfortunately synergize well with each other so were gonna take game tools and swarm control and like we looked at before we have the five percent modifiers from swarm control and then were just gonna open the spawn menu go to the spawn list and i think well take 10 crassus detonators and unsurprisingly it uh it dies very easily whenever it has five percent of its normal health and uh theres no repercussion theres just we just keep doing this now theres actually ten so these incredibly weak crassus detonators will just die off and as they die off theyre just gonna mine their own gold and as you can see in about 45 seconds we have invented a money printer and once again this isnt the fault of these mods for existing or the mod makers for making them because this could be a really cool like youtube intro for me like literally just making a golden cave like this is my own personal hell because i dont like gold but as you can see it it this is normal i can finish this mission go back and disable these mods and just return to playing the game normally like i i can get out of here with these spoils and not suffer any repercussions or this have to be a sandbox save or anything like that oh and i forgot i also am nearly immune to all of their attacks because their health or their damage has been reduced not the bulk not the death explosion though thats still very very real but as you can see this is like i believe the tool should exist but not in the capacity that its not majorly changing the progression which is what approved mods arent supposed to be so after all this doom and gloom youre probably wondering what can actually be done to fix this situation because most of these mods that im using to break the game this way i dont want them to be sent to sandbox its just a matter of the current iteration of the approval system they should be in sandbox so once again i think the issue comes down to the way the approval system currently works and is being moderated not with the mods that are being made and this might seem a little extreme to some but i would entirely remove the sandbox category and instead of approved mods you just have a non-gameplay changing mods and what we have currently is verified and then it would have a separate save for approved mods at any point in time you would obviously be able to copy the vanilla save over to use mods on it and the only real meaningful difference would be the existence of steam achievements and personally i really wouldnt care if steam achievements were enabled on the modded save file theres really no achievement in deep rock galactic thats actually difficult yes all gold promotion does take hundreds of hours and you could cheat it with mods and get it done in a weekend as far as the steam achievement argument goes i really dont care if the steam achievements are enabled on the modded save file because like i said really none of them are actually challenging and at that point theyre really the only meaningful difference we have left is the modded player tag and the difficulty of finding modded players and i think the difficulty of finding modded players argument is very very valid having played public games with approved mods and getting maybe one or two people joining me in an hour of gameplay its very telling that playing in public lobbies with mods has this very stark contrast in that nobody is looking for those random modded games so i think that is a very significant issue that needs to be addressed if the approval system is going to get reworked and while i think that jumping feet first and just completely removing the approval category and just having cosmetic mods and gameplay mods as the two and only two modes of play i think it would help push more people into playing in the modded category and then the real big ticket item that im probably gonna get a lot of comments about is why do you even care why does level even matter why shouldnt people be able to cheat or get a slight advantage or make the game easier for themselves and while i dont really have a great answer for you just by looking at my channel and looking at my profile and looking at my twitch ive spent a lot of time and invested a lot of energy and ive been actively playing it and following it through its development for over three years now so id be lying if i didnt say that i at least have a little bit of investment in the game being balanced and understanding the progression and something that ive spent so much time on i actually want to call things out when they dont seem correct to me and yeah at the end of the day it is a pve game and there really is nothing that you can do to harm other players by cheating some gold in your own game and thats why ive sort of accepted at this point thats why i use brighter objects its just to say hey im part of the problem now and it really doesnt matter and im not hurting anyone but i think i can still call out the fact that the approval system in its current iteration is enabling cheating and it really makes me question why they force people into approved and sandbox saves and disable steam achievements when you can just turn off the approved mods afterwards and get those steam achievements anyways that and theres very few sandbox mods that are actually extreme cheats someone made a mod where you could purchase barley bulbs for 10 000 credits which is definitely an extreme price and it got kicked to sandbox i mean thats one of the more balanced approved mods i can imagine so this is what im talking about is just in the current iteration its impossible to ever keep anything fair when were talking about balancing all of these mods in three different categories you can double all of your stats but you cant buy a barley bulb for 10 000 credits the examples go on and on and on this is why i think it should just be one modded gameplay category and honestly if they were to do that i would just move over to it myself and i think that seeing more content creators and personalities in the community actually live in the modded space would be a beneficial thing i know plenty of people who only play modded difficulties these days and im certain that that would be their new place to be from then on the entire high level and modded difficulty community would be in that space so i think taking that stigma away from it that its sandbox or whatever would help a lot so to say that level or being able to get an advantage from mods doesnt matter is clearly against what the devs outlined in the original post is that they clearly want to keep some level of progression balance but clearly thats not working anymore because i can just go get infinite money in 30 minutes from farming crassus detonators the system doesnt work so they can either attempt to tighten the choke hold on a mods and just kick everything into sandbox which would be correct per their original mission statement or they could decriminalize these weird sandbox mods that really are even more extreme than some of the stuff we havent approved thats my take at least merge approved and sandbox together and just any mods theyre like increase your level forever just dont let those be published thats all i can say that i wanted to acknowledge before i wrapped up because i almost forgot that the high difficulty mod thats widely used by the modded difficulty community these days doesnt increase the payout of hazard 6 hazard 7 starship troopers that kind of thing so i use those mods as an example in the beginning because that was the meta and that was how things were for a really long time and just the fact that it was never truly acknowledged it was just because those mods stopped being updated that they went away not because the issue was actually addressed but ive been rambling on long enough once again i understand that just because a mod has the ability to give a player an advantage doesnt mean its being expressly used to cheat but as some of the comments weve seen kind of reflect some people are definitely using these mods in that way why do i care well why does anyone care about anything because im invested in this game but that about does it for my coverage of modding i know this has been a lot of doom and gloom but im very happy with modding in general with drg it enriches the game experience it makes it easier for me to make content and overall just makes the game more interesting for people that probably would have quit a long time ago but im going to keep talking in circles all day about this overall i want to extend a very positive sentiment to the modding community im incredibly impressed with everything that you guys do youre all very talented except if youre just doubling stats and hex editor thats just weird as hell if youd like to join and become a youtube member get your name in the credits of every video along with some other perks you can press the join button down below if youd like to catch me live i stream over on twitch and if you like to come tell me that all mods are perfectly fair and balanced you can find me in my community over on discord much love and as always thank you for watching and have a nice day steam safety valve For every brighter object, there is a crassus detonator spawned by game tools.Become a Member: Twitch: My Discord: steam co op games free games on steam now all steam official game avatars steam is stuck on connecting account how to find game directory steam